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2. in BuLi vs 2. in PL
#21
(13-03-2016, 02:19 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 01:29 PM)TEL Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 12:29 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:47 AM)bayern Wrote: Why fight then to go to Europe if you see it then as distraction?

They fought to finish as high as possible which translates to more money from the premier league. If that match was in the Champions League or Spurs were not a title contender, you can bet your arse they would have gone out, full throttle(doesnt mean they wouldn't have lost)
Bottom line is the Europa League is a second rate tournament that's difficult to win and some teams would rather fight for the title than risk losing it all by trying to win everything. As strong as Chelsea were when they won it, their league form suffered the consequences.
Very well put mate. The other point regarding Chelsea's win is Benitez was willing to sacrifice Chelsea's league position in order to add to his CV.

Thats just an excuse that only fans of English clubs use instead of admitting lack of quality they still live in 2005-2010 era....

The only team that can comfortably handle The Champions League and their league title race convincingly and conveniently these days are Barcelona and they're probably the best club team ever(current squad) The league takes its toll on your squad. Add to it the Champions League and 2 domestic cups and it would be stupid to go all out for everything if you don't have an exceptional bench(how many teams in Europe have an exceptional bench?)
The Europa League is even worse, considering the timing and the teams you're likely to face in it and all for what? To be considered the best of the rest or the best of an average bunch? The monetary value doesn't help much either. No self respecting top team would claim to be fighting for a Europa League place during the course of a season. It's just not worth the hassle. The teams that have won it or gotten to the final in the last 20 years in England have all had to sacrifice their league form/ambitions(Liverpool, Boro and Chelsea spring to mind) Hell, the last time Madrid won the Champions League, they didn't win their league title, did they? You have to be at the very top of your game for the entire season to stand a chance of winning your domestic title and any of the two European cups. This lack of quality you keep on harping about is just silly. Remove Barcelona and Madrid and Spain don't have anything on England in terms of general quality. Bundesliga have Bayern and you have Pep to thank for that. Italy? Nope. France? Maybe PSG. Portugal? No! So you're going to have to come up with something else to make your point
Reply
#22
(13-03-2016, 02:48 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:34 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:17 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 01:24 PM)Rotimi Wrote: Wrong. Benitez did

Wrong, that was Mourinho in 2014 and that was an epic fail.

Huh? Wasn't it Benitez that won the crappy cup for Chelsea? Except we're talking about two different things

My point was Benitez WON the trophy while a year later Mourinho sacfrificed league title in attempt to become first coach to win CL with 3 clubs and he failed like an idiot that he is.

Benitez also gave up on the league to win the Europa League!
Reply
#23
(13-03-2016, 02:52 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:19 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 01:29 PM)TEL Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 12:29 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:47 AM)bayern Wrote: Why fight then to go to Europe if you see it then as distraction?

They fought to finish as high as possible which translates to more money from the premier league. If that match was in the Champions League or Spurs were not a title contender, you can bet your arse they would have gone out, full throttle(doesnt mean they wouldn't have lost)
Bottom line is the Europa League is a second rate tournament that's difficult to win and some teams would rather fight for the title than risk losing it all by trying to win everything. As strong as Chelsea were when they won it, their league form suffered the consequences.
Very well put mate. The other point regarding Chelsea's win is Benitez was willing to sacrifice Chelsea's league position in order to add to his CV.

Thats just an excuse that only fans of English clubs use instead of admitting lack of quality they still live in 2005-2010 era....

The only team that can comfortably handle The Champions League and their league title race convincingly and conveniently these days are Barcelona and they're probably the best club team ever(current squad) The league takes its toll on your squad. Add to it the Champions League and 2 domestic cups and it would be stupid to go all out for everything if you don't have an exceptional bench(how many teams in Europe have an exceptional bench?)
The Europa League is even worse, considering the timing and the teams you're likely to face in it and all for what? To be considered the best of the rest or the best of an average bunch? The monetary value doesn't help much either. No self respecting top team would claim to be fighting for a Europa League place during the course of a season. It's just not worth the hassle. The teams that have won it or gotten to the final in the last 20 years in England have all had to sacrifice their league form/ambitions(Liverpool, Boro and Chelsea spring to mind) Hell, the last time Madrid won the Champions League, they didn't win their league title, did they? You have to be at the very top of your game for the entire season to stand a chance of winning your domestic title and any of the two European cups. This lack of quality you keep on harping about is just silly. Remove Barcelona and Madrid and Spain don't have anything on England in terms of general quality. Bundesliga have Bayern and you have Pep to thank for that. Italy? Nope. France? Maybe PSG. Portugal? No! So you're going to have to come up with something else to make your point

1. How did Chelsea sacrifice the league in 2013 when they sacked Di Matteo and replaced him with Benitez?
2. Second tier Spanish clubs are "killing" other nations top and second tier clubs and you can remember what Bilbao did to United few years back and United didn't field a reserve squad.
3. Timing EL to CL? It's 3 days from wednesday to saturday as it is thursday to sunday, the difference is only tuesday to weekend games but that is not a major thing.
4. Remove Madrid and Barca? Atletico wins it easy this years PL.
5. Why so overrate middle to bottom PL teams to other leagues teams in same positions? Because of money? I doubt there will much jealousy around Europe's clubs with less money or even English clubs when Bournemouth will HAVE to buy Juan Iturbe for 25m € if they stay in PL. 25m € for him?
6. Why are you so defensive? Few years back everyone was admiring and admiting that PL was the best, now it's not, it's very good but top teams in PL can't match top team(s) in Spain, Italy, Germany and France at moment. Is the most exiting league in the world? Yes it is. Whats the quality of last 2, 3 years? Average.
Reply
#24
(13-03-2016, 02:54 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:48 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:34 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:17 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 01:24 PM)Rotimi Wrote: Wrong. Benitez did

Wrong, that was Mourinho in 2014 and that was an epic fail.

Huh? Wasn't it Benitez that won the crappy cup for Chelsea? Except we're talking about two different things

My point was Benitez WON the trophy while a year later Mourinho sacfrificed league title in attempt to become first coach to win CL with 3 clubs and he failed like an idiot that he is.

Benitez also gave up on the league to win the Europa League!

The league title was way gone when he came.
Reply
#25
(13-03-2016, 03:26 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:54 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:48 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:34 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:17 PM)bayern Wrote: Wrong, that was Mourinho in 2014 and that was an epic fail.

Huh? Wasn't it Benitez that won the crappy cup for Chelsea? Except we're talking about two different things

My point was Benitez WON the trophy while a year later Mourinho sacfrificed league title in attempt to become first coach to win CL with 3 clubs and he failed like an idiot that he is.

Benitez also gave up on the league to win the Europa League!

The league title was way gone when he came.

And it wasn't gone when Hiddink came this season? Do you see him sacrificing one for the other? That's why you have Chelsea out of every tournament in March. They started poorly and stupidly(or naively) thought they could manage to get something from everything
Reply
#26
(13-03-2016, 04:02 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 03:26 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:54 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:48 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:34 PM)Rotimi Wrote: Huh? Wasn't it Benitez that won the crappy cup for Chelsea? Except we're talking about two different things

My point was Benitez WON the trophy while a year later Mourinho sacfrificed league title in attempt to become first coach to win CL with 3 clubs and he failed like an idiot that he is.

Benitez also gave up on the league to win the Europa League!

The league title was way gone when he came.

And it wasn't gone when Hiddink came this season? Do you see him sacrificing one for the other? That's why you have Chelsea out of every tournament in March. They started poorly and stupidly(or naively) thought they could manage to get something from everything
 "They were weak and naive"!
I really don't get your point. So you're saying they should concentrate on CL only even if they get relegated? Or they should use the quality that they have and try to qualy for Europe?
Reply
#27
(13-03-2016, 03:25 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:52 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:19 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 01:29 PM)TEL Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 12:29 PM)Rotimi Wrote: They fought to finish as high as possible which translates to more money from the premier league. If that match was in the Champions League or Spurs were not a title contender, you can bet your arse they would have gone out, full throttle(doesnt mean they wouldn't have lost)
Bottom line is the Europa League is a second rate tournament that's difficult to win and some teams would rather fight for the title than risk losing it all by trying to win everything. As strong as Chelsea were when they won it, their league form suffered the consequences.
Very well put mate. The other point regarding Chelsea's win is Benitez was willing to sacrifice Chelsea's league position in order to add to his CV.

Thats just an excuse that only fans of English clubs use instead of admitting lack of quality they still live in 2005-2010 era....

The only team that can comfortably handle The Champions League and their league title race convincingly and conveniently these days are Barcelona and they're probably the best club team ever(current squad) The league takes its toll on your squad. Add to it the Champions League and 2 domestic cups and it would be stupid to go all out for everything if you don't have an exceptional bench(how many teams in Europe have an exceptional bench?)
The Europa League is even worse, considering the timing and the teams you're likely to face in it and all for what? To be considered the best of the rest or the best of an average bunch? The monetary value doesn't help much either. No self respecting top team would claim to be fighting for a Europa League place during the course of a season. It's just not worth the hassle. The teams that have won it or gotten to the final in the last 20 years in England have all had to sacrifice their league form/ambitions(Liverpool, Boro and Chelsea spring to mind) Hell, the last time Madrid won the Champions League, they didn't win their league title, did they? You have to be at the very top of your game for the entire season to stand a chance of winning your domestic title and any of the two European cups. This lack of quality you keep on harping about is just silly. Remove Barcelona and Madrid and Spain don't have anything on England in terms of general quality. Bundesliga have Bayern and you have Pep to thank for that. Italy? Nope. France? Maybe PSG. Portugal? No! So you're going to have to come up with something else to make your point

1. How did Chelsea sacrifice the league in 2013 when they sacked Di Matteo and replaced him with Benitez?
2. Second tier Spanish clubs are "killing" other nations top and second tier clubs and you can remember what Bilbao did to United few years back and United didn't field a reserve squad.
3. Timing EL to CL? It's 3 days from wednesday to saturday as it is thursday to sunday, the difference is only tuesday to weekend games but that is not a major thing.
4. Remove Madrid and Barca? Atletico wins it easy this years PL.
5. Why so overrate middle to bottom PL teams to other leagues teams in same positions? Because of money? I doubt there will much jealousy around Europe's clubs with less money or even English clubs when Bournemouth will HAVE to buy Juan Iturbe for 25m € if they stay in PL. 25m € for him?
6. Why are you so defensive? Few years back everyone was admiring and admiting that PL was the best, now it's not, it's very good but top teams in PL can't match top team(s) in Spain, Italy, Germany and France at moment. Is the most exiting league in the world? Yes it is. Whats the quality of last 2, 3 years? Average.

Bilbao are Europa League material. United players could be accused of complacency that season. They all thought they were better than the tournament and we're duly shown the way out. Doesn't mean Bilbao are better than them. What makes you think Atletico would win the premiership easily? PSG just smashed some poor team in the French league 9-0 and that's the title wrapped up in mid March! And you call that a league? Serie A teams just watched Juve recover from a poor start to go on some 12(or 15)game winning streak ffs! Shit league! Bundesliga? Bayern, yes top team. Dortmund, great team at the moment but what happened last season? It's convenient for you to come and remind us of how shit the premiership is in a season where every top team has managed to underachieve(freak occurrence) and coincidentally has every average team punching a one their weight(largely boosted by the great incentive on offer from next season)
Reply
#28
(13-03-2016, 04:08 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 04:02 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 03:26 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:54 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:48 PM)bayern Wrote: My point was Benitez WON the trophy while a year later Mourinho sacfrificed league title in attempt to become first coach to win CL with 3 clubs and he failed like an idiot that he is.

Benitez also gave up on the league to win the Europa League!

The league title was way gone when he came.

And it wasn't gone when Hiddink came this season? Do you see him sacrificing one for the other? That's why you have Chelsea out of every tournament in March. They started poorly and stupidly(or naively) thought they could manage to get something from everything
 "They were weak and naive"!
I really don't get your point. So you're saying they should concentrate on CL only even if they get relegated? Or they should use the quality that they have and try to qualy for Europe?

I said they started poorly and thought they could salvage their season on all fronts(top four finish while at least going farther than the Round of 16 in the Champions league). I didn't call them weak and the naivety was an option to them being stupid, if you will.
That post was in comparison to when Benitez came and concentrated solely on the Europa League and duly won. Mind you, it's not a surefire way of winning g a tournament but it does boost your chances considerably.
Reply
#29
(13-03-2016, 04:13 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 03:25 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:52 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:19 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 01:29 PM)TEL Wrote: Very well put mate. The other point regarding Chelsea's win is Benitez was willing to sacrifice Chelsea's league position in order to add to his CV.

Thats just an excuse that only fans of English clubs use instead of admitting lack of quality they still live in 2005-2010 era....

The only team that can comfortably handle The Champions League and their league title race convincingly and conveniently these days are Barcelona and they're probably the best club team ever(current squad) The league takes its toll on your squad. Add to it the Champions League and 2 domestic cups and it would be stupid to go all out for everything if you don't have an exceptional bench(how many teams in Europe have an exceptional bench?)
The Europa League is even worse, considering the timing and the teams you're likely to face in it and all for what? To be considered the best of the rest or the best of an average bunch? The monetary value doesn't help much either. No self respecting top team would claim to be fighting for a Europa League place during the course of a season. It's just not worth the hassle. The teams that have won it or gotten to the final in the last 20 years in England have all had to sacrifice their league form/ambitions(Liverpool, Boro and Chelsea spring to mind) Hell, the last time Madrid won the Champions League, they didn't win their league title, did they? You have to be at the very top of your game for the entire season to stand a chance of winning your domestic title and any of the two European cups. This lack of quality you keep on harping about is just silly. Remove Barcelona and Madrid and Spain don't have anything on England in terms of general quality. Bundesliga have Bayern and you have Pep to thank for that. Italy? Nope. France? Maybe PSG. Portugal? No! So you're going to have to come up with something else to make your point

1. How did Chelsea sacrifice the league in 2013 when they sacked Di Matteo and replaced him with Benitez?
2. Second tier Spanish clubs are "killing" other nations top and second tier clubs and you can remember what Bilbao did to United few years back and United didn't field a reserve squad.
3. Timing EL to CL? It's 3 days from wednesday to saturday as it is thursday to sunday, the difference is only tuesday to weekend games but that is not a major thing.
4. Remove Madrid and Barca? Atletico wins it easy this years PL.
5. Why so overrate middle to bottom PL teams to other leagues teams in same positions? Because of money? I doubt there will much jealousy around Europe's clubs with less money or even English clubs when Bournemouth will HAVE to buy Juan Iturbe for 25m € if they stay in PL. 25m € for him?
6. Why are you so defensive? Few years back everyone was admiring and admiting that PL was the best, now it's not, it's very good but top teams in PL can't match top team(s) in Spain, Italy, Germany and France at moment. Is the most exiting league in the world? Yes it is. Whats the quality of last 2, 3 years? Average.

Bilbao are Europa League material. United players could be accused of complacency that season. They all thought they were better than the tournament and we're duly shown the way out. Doesn't mean Bilbao are better than them. What makes you think Atletico would win the premiership easily? PSG just smashed some poor team in the French league 9-0 and that's the title wrapped up in mid March! And you call that a league? Serie A teams just watched Juve recover from a poor start to go on some 12(or 15)game winning streak ffs! Shit league! Bundesliga? Bayern, yes top team. Dortmund, great team at the moment but what happened last season? It's convenient for you to come and remind us of how shit the premiership is Caritas_05

Only this season they "underachived"? They can't do shit in Europe for last 3 years.
Reply
#30
(13-03-2016, 04:18 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 04:08 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 04:02 PM)Rotimi Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 03:26 PM)bayern Wrote:
(13-03-2016, 02:54 PM)Rotimi Wrote: Benitez also gave up on the league to win the Europa League!

The league title was way gone when he came.

And it wasn't gone when Hiddink came this season? Do you see him sacrificing one for the other? That's why you have Chelsea out of every tournament in March. They started poorly and stupidly(or naively) thought they could manage to get something from everything
 "They were weak and naive"!
I really don't get your point. So you're saying they should concentrate on CL only even if they get relegated? Or they should use the quality that they have and try to qualy for Europe?

I said they started poorly and thought they could salvage their season on all fronts(top four finish while at least going farther than  the Round of 16 in the Champions league). I didn't call them weak and the naivety was an option to them being stupid, if you will.
That post was in comparison to when Benitez came and concentrated solely on the Europa League and duly won. Mind you, it's not a surefire way of winning g a tournament but it does boost your chances considerably.
 The weak and naive was quote from Wenger and a joke.
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